Succeeding With Jim Snack

GC: What are the difficulties you see with making a living in magic today?

JS: Making a living as a magician today is really no different from making a living as a magician in the past. If you’re going to have a sustainable business, you’re going to have to book enough shows at high enough fees so that after you take away and deduct all your business expenses, there’s enough money left over so you can support your desired lifestyle. It’s pretty straightforward. Book enough shows at high enough fees so that after the expenses you’ve got enough left over to pay all the bills.

GC: So that’s basically what it all comes down to? It may be an art, but there’s a segment which is a commodity?

JS: In some ways, if you look at it in terms of “commodity.” I mean, what are you selling? You’re selling dates on a calendar. You have so many dates on the calendar you can work – where you’re out there producing your income. If your income is solely from performance fees… I mean, there are other streams of income you – sell products, that sort of thing. But if you’re looking at performance fees, you only have a certain limited number of days in a year or a month or whatever, that you can perform. And, honestly, the magic number is 150, I’ve always said. Believe it or not, Jay Leno still books 150 days of comedy stand-up days a year. Can you believe that?

GC: Well since you said it, I’ll believe it. [Aside: Jim’s a truthful kinda guy.]

JS: No, I saw him on the Actors’ Studio. When he was asked why, he said “My craft is comedy and the only way to stay sharp at your craft is to do it. Besides if this TV thing doesn’t work out..” But it’s 150 dates a year; that’s your commodity. That’s what you’re selling and you’ve got to fill those dates. Now, some performers do less and some do more. When I was performing magic full-time, I was doing more like 170 dates a year. Once I shifted into the motivational speaking business, my rates went up and now I do like 100 dates a year.

GC: I’m glad to hear it. Listening to (your CDs) about your early years, working a 200-mile radius – I got tired just hearing it.

JS: Yeah, Chet – some things never change. Where I used to get up at 3 a.m. and drive to Long Island to do a school assembly program at 8 o’clock, now I get up at 3 a.m. to get to the airport to catch a 6 a.m. flight to somewhere! Things never change!

GC: You really do know what difficulties they (our readers) are facing. (Sometimes) young people say “you know those old people, they’re trying to keep us from coming in with our new brand of magic and they don’t know what we’re going through!” You really do know what they’re going through; you pretty much gained your experience the hard way, haven’t you?

JS: Well yeah! I did street performing many times. I figured out really quickly that there were better venues to work! When I first started out, I did street performing in New York City, I did street performing in Boston and Miami. I used to work festivals as a street performer.

And there are things I absolutely love about street performing. You develop your skills at drawing a crowd and stopping and holding people. Your performance has to be totally spontaneous, you have to be totally active. You’re at the mercy of the elements.

You control nothing. Almost nothing! You know, a drunk can walk in front of you, you really have to be quick on your feet. I love good street performers! And if I see a street performer, if they have a good act, I always throw money in their hat. I mean, always.

It’s funny; I got approached at the Union Train Station in Washington D.C. a couple weeks ago. A woman came up to me, panhandling, asking for money. And I said “Is that your whole act?” She looked at me kind of crazy. I said, “Look – I’m sorry. But I only give money to street performers. You’re gonna need a better act than that.” She walked away and I turned to the woman sitting next to me and I said “I only give money to street performers.”

And this woman got very indignant. She turned around and said to me “I’m not a street performer!”

And I said, “You’re a couple of notches below a street performer. You don’t even have an act. Go get an act and you might get some money from me.” I’ve been there! I paid my dues. For the first fifteen years – since 1979 – as a family entertainer working within a 200-mile radius of my home – that was the basis for my Success-in-Magic course.

What I didn’t know (at first) is there’s all kinds of venues. And then another five years after that, transitioning my business to the speaking and training field where I’ve spent the last nine years – and that was really based upon my desire to do more teaching. But yeah, I’ve really done it all. I’ve worked in Atlantic City casinos and church basements – you name it!

GC: I don’t want to give away anything in your course, but –

JS: Give it all away! I don’t care.

GC: You really opened yourself up (in the course). “Here’s a bunch of things I did – Don’t Do This!”

JS: Really, one of the mistakes I made along the way is not being focused enough in my career. Because I was a generalist, working in a limited geographic area, I took any booking that came my way. You read Volume Two of my course…that was basically me writing up all the strange bookings I ever had. How ’bout the time I got hired to do magic on a bus full rolling down the North Way?

GC: That’s what I was just thinking. The book is worth buying just for that story!

JS: Y’know, I had this agent who would book me in the strangest gigs, and then he’d tell me how much money it was. And I said “Well I can do that.” That was actually a pretty good booking.

I admire people like Criss Angel, people who really know what they want and what venues they want to work. I mean, Criss probably never did a school assembly program in his life…Maybe in Long Island when he first started out. Early on he realized he wanted to do the media stuff.My goal is always to make a lot of money and walk down the street and have nobody know who I am. -I got that from Michael Davis, the juggler.

GC: I had a friend who was in a popular grunge band (Does anyone do grunge any more?) who told me he’d brush his hair, put on a clean shirt, then go to the store and nobody would recognize him!

JS: Appearances are extremely important. Last weekend was my wife’s birthday and I had to fly down to Baltimore. Very often on a weekend, I’ll wear blue jeans and a cap, sneakers and just a shirt. At the Baltimore airport, there’s a very fine jewelry store called “Fire & Ice.” And I’m telling you, I didn’t get the time of day from the clerk – just because I was in jeans.

The next day, I’d done my program and I came back to the airport. Now I was in a business suit. The woman came right up to me, sold the earrings. And I’m chatting with her about things, and she says “You’re exactly the demographic we’re looking for in this jewelry store: the travelling businessman.” And I kind of laughed (to myself) “How come you didn’t give me the time of day yesterday?” She didn’t even recognize me!

GC: I have a friend – he was a private investigator and was interviewing for an assistant. And this one guy came in with a tie. Nobody else came in with a tie. And he (my friend) thought “Now he’s trying to impress me and I’m not going to fall for it. But – boy, it’s working!!”

JS: Y’know, I’m rewriting “Showmanship for Magicians” – (to be called) “How to Be an Outstanding Performer.” And the secret is – to stand out. You want to be outstanding? You gotta stand out. And how do you stand out? You look different. If everybody else is wearing a tie, don’t wear a tie. Make sure that what you’re wearing has contrasting colours to the backdrop you’re standing against. If there’s a black backdrop, for goodness’ sake don’t wear a black suit, or you’re going to be looking like a disembodied head floating across the stage.

GC: That might work for a seance.

JS: Just do something different. (Jim relates a valuable story in which he chooses to be the only speaker at an event who DIDN’T use Powerpoint slides – and stood out as significantly different.)

GC: That is a very valuable secret you’ve just given out for free. You realize that, don’t you?

JS: You want to be an outstanding performer? Stand out!

GC: Which brings up – your course isn’t just about marketing. Your course is about building your business until you’re a full-time professional.