You are here: Home › Pillars of Stone › Scurvy Ridden One Eye’d Thieves!

Scurvy Ridden One Eye’d Thieves!

Scurvy Ridden One Eye’d Thieves!
By Jeff Stone

I try to be a pretty open-minded person, and try as I might, I just cannot find any good reason that someone becomes a pirate. No, I don’t mean Johnny Depp. I’m talking about people who think it’s ok to copy DVDs, and eBooks and pass them around and download them without paying for them. In my opinion, as you no doubt guessed based on the title of this article, these people are no different from a petty thief knockin’ over a local drug store to get their latest fix of nicotine or Oxycontin, or whatever (pick your poison). I’m tired of it.

However, as I mentioned, I try to stay open-minded – although I’ve been told not to open my mind so far that my brains fall out – so I’m going to open this subject up to debate. Please take time to post your opinion on this subject. I want to start a healthy debate. I’ve started with my opinion. Do you agree or disagree? I want to know why as well. A simple “I agree” or “I disagree” will not be helpful. Please tell us why you feel the way you do, and let’s hope for a good solid debate.

Should we keelhaul them, make them walk the plank, or should we advance them in rank and hold them up as heroes? Your thoughts?

Please take a moment to reply to and “like” this article

30 Responses to "Scurvy Ridden One Eye’d Thieves!"

Grandpa Chet says:

September 2009 at 7:28 am

Haven’t rated this one yet, as its intent is really to bring response — and I wanna see what the response is.

And here’s my chance to paraphrase an old joke from my TRS-80 Model 1 days: I don’t see what the big deal is with copying DVDs. I copied a DVD on a Xerox machine just the other day and hung it on the wall.
Michal Mystic says:

September 2009 at 10:49 am

This is a subject I’ve talked a lot about and have had dealings with in the past. On one hand I don’t think the creator should lose the money from pirates, specially with the hard work that goes into making these products. Now yes here comes the but . . .

But magic is a different type of product. I have a good friend of mine that says well ok what the difference of you downloading a dvd or me lending it to you, at one point it was bought and then I shared it with you, or whats the difference of me lets say buy Paul Harris new dvd set and teaching you as a friend some of my fav effects from it. Does this mean Im a pirate or keeping with the tradition of magic and sharing knowledge with another magician?

It was a good point but I still think downloading is a bad idea and you should buy your products!
Jeff Stone says:

September 2009 at 2:43 pm

@MM – Very interesting question. I’m dying to hear some answers . . . what do you guys think?
Grandpa Chet says:

September 2009 at 3:04 pm

The belief of thieves (lets not be silly and glamorize them) is that creators will always create, even when they lose their shirts. Even more recent history proves this is not true. There are too many software designers who left the personal computer market because they were unable to make a living from their royalties, even when “everyone” had a copy of their creations.

That was a small market. Read *Atlas Shrugged* to get an idea of our near future.
Steven Dickinson says:

October 2009 at 5:04 am

My parents taught me that we are not to steal. Plain and simple. When you copy other people’s work you are stealing other people’s ideas, you are stealing money out of the rightful owners pocket and food out of the mouth of their family.

@MM – very interesting question indeed. Okay, I’ve typed a few things but than erased them, trying to formulate my answer. Is there a fine line between sitting down and watching a Magic DVD with another magician stealing? OK I answered a question with a question.

I’ve been in that situation once and right now I can’t even recall what magic DVD we watched. At that moment it was one magician helping another restart his magic career. In this case I don’t think it was stealing. For one reason, I didn’t take notes and for the life of me can’t remember anything about it. I hope I don’t end up on Judge Judy because of this.

Also, my actions were not to make money off of another’s work which is one reason for pirating. The other reason would be to keep from spending money.

Here is a finally question, if pass along another’s work is seen as stealing about about if you sell a magic DVD you don’t want anymore?
Jeff Stone says:

October 2009 at 5:41 am

@Steven, @MM – you both bring up some good questions. I was hoping to spark more of a debate than we’ve gotten so far. So here’s a question:

Is it ok to listen to a CD with a friend?

If so, is it ok to rip the CD onto your PC to listen to each track once, then delete them?

Is it ok to give that CD away?

Can I give old magic DVDs away to someone?

@Steven – you mentioned making money off of pirated DVDs. I’m actually just referring to downloading the DVD so you don’t have to buy it. You’re not making money in that case; you’re “saving” money.
OldZombie says:

October 2009 at 5:27 am

Downloading magic DVD’s is wrong. It is stealing, plain and simple. However there are many ‘gray’ areas. For example I don’t think there is anything wrong with letting a fellow magician borrow a DVD. I don’t think it is any different than borrowing a book, cd, or dvd from the library. Back in the 70’s I remember taking ‘The Amateur Magicians Handbook’ by Henry Hay out of the library, and ended up purchasing my own copy. (For $1.98 and I still have it)

It is the same with music, listening with a friend? Thats fine of course. Ripping to PC to be listened to once? I think that is okay too, however I would think that if you liked it it may not get deleted. Giving the CD away? Gifts are always good I think. As for giving away a magic DVD, I think that is okay too. Say I give away my copy of “Stone Cold Magic” to someone that is not familiar with Jeff’s work. I would think rather than hurting Jeff’s business I am spreading the word and encouraging people to purchase other Stone Cold Magic products.

So the bottom line is: Local and limited sharing of original items okay. Unlimited reproduction and limitless downloads, not okay.

Here are a couple more things to think about;

What about websites that ‘rent’ magic DVD’s? (there are at least 2 I am aware of, maybe more)They claim it is to allow you to ‘preview’ before you buy, but come on. I totally agree that there is TONS of rubble out there, but with SCMM, My Lovely Assistant, The Magic Cafe and others, there are plenty of resources to research a product prior to purchasing.

Is it okay to purchase a magic DVD, then burn a copy for yourself and sell or trade in the original? (I will admit I have done this when I was strapped for cash).

Or how about saving streaming videos that are intended to be view on line only? For example when Sankey puts up the free videos. Right now it is an effect called ‘Black Market’. Clearly it is not intended to be ‘saved’ but it can be done. When Jay posted it at a public website did he lose all control over it?

I’m going to shut up now…
1. Jeff Stone says:
  
  October 2009 at 3:22 am
  
  @OZ – To Paraphrase Noah Bennet, some people are okay with Morally Gray. It think this is one of those things. It’s just tough to say 100% black or white.
Mathias says:

October 2009 at 8:57 pm

I used to download and trade burned magic dvd’s not long after I got into magic. I wanted to learn everything magic-wise that appealed to me, but I couldn’t because I had no money and my parents couldn’t afford to buy me any.
Now that’s one big pitfall for us younger-generation, we are easily stimulated by impulse that we don’t stop, think, and rationalize the situation “do I really want that product? am I really gonna use it?”.

People who do these type of things always say “why should we waste our money on buying when we can distribute them for everyone for free? The companies who produced these dvd’s make plenty of money anyways…” They also argue that magic-secrets should be shared freely shared among magicians “creators just want others to be their dvd’s so they can make money, why can’t they just freely share there secrets?…they’re just ripping us off”.

I want to say more, but I don’t have any more time right now.
1. Jeff Stone says:
  
  October 2009 at 3:24 am
  
  @Mathias – The problem, as I’m sure you’re aware, with that line of thinking is that by that logic, everything in the world should be free. Rob from the rich and give to the poor . . . I think not. Like it or not, Robin Hood was just that, a hood. He was a thief.
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 9:04 pm

Ah, if only the companies – and the artists – who make these DVDs DID make plenty of money! At least one major producer of magic videos is looking at dropping the business. You’d be surprised at how much material has been pulled before reaching the market, because of these thefts.
Mathias says:

October 2009 at 10:12 pm

@Chet – “You’d be surprised at how much material has been pulled before reaching the market, because of these thefts.”

I never thought about that^.

Most ‘thieves'(mainly young kids) don’t look at the broader picture; they don’t seriously take into consideration on how much work and money goes into these projects. They just want to get what they want for free, even if it is illegal.
The reason I stopped was because I couldn’t handle the overwhelming feeling of guilt every time I learned a trick from pirated DVDs, knowing that I didn’t “earn” it (so to say), especially where the artists themselves say “Thank you for PURCHASING the this DVD, I trust that you obtained this legally”. It was at that time I was losing my spark and passion for magic. There’s no fun in getting everything you want without earning. That’s why I love learning from books; you have to put in mental effort and STUDY them in order to fully reap the benefits of the book. You feel that you’ve actually accomplished something and are progressing forward (thus actually appreciate the material more) rather than being fed spoon-fulls of information and getting nowhere.
Mathias says:

October 2009 at 10:28 pm

Got a bit off topic towards the end.

Anyways, thieves will always argue that DVDs and such should be distributed freely. If you argue to them about the effort and production costs, a lot of them will likely say that it’s not their problem, its the company/artists fault.

Shows how damn self-centered people can be. They just assume that all artists make DVDs/CDs to take your money; if you suggest to them that a lot of artists’ true intention is to share their own work to the public, they’ll just argue that if the artists want to share their work, why don’t they do it for free.

They seem to treat magic and it’s secrets in the same realm as other industries. They post tutorials, pirated DVDs and ebooks all on public file-sharing sites.
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 8:52 am

Jeff: One could make the Ditko argument that gray is nothing more than polluted white. Reminds me of the Family Home Evening lesson wherein the father made a bunch of brownies — which had “only” one gram of mouse poop in ’em.
Jeff Stone says:

October 2009 at 11:20 am

@Chet – Is gray “polluted white” or is it “Diluted Black?”
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 12:32 pm

Either way, it’s the introduction of a “foreign” colour into the original colour. You need to read more Steve Ditko, or even Ayn Rand (though the latter will take loads more time).
Jeff Stone says:

October 2009 at 1:12 pm

@Chet – Agreed, but isn’t black that’s fading to white better than white that’s becoming black?
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 2:05 pm

Only if we’re discussing morals, Jeff. I never metaphor I didn’t like.
Mathias says:

October 2009 at 12:26 am

@Jeff – Robin Hood obviously wouldn’t have felt the need to help the poor in that way if that so-called ‘King’ and his Sheriff of Nottingham weren’t so unjust and selfish.
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 12:40 am

Comparing thieves who destroy a market with a folk hero who fought a tyrant, is rather comparing apples to oranges.
Jeff Stone says:

October 2009 at 12:10 pm

I knew my Robin Hood comment was going to stir the pot a little. However I still stand by it. What’s the old adage? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Yes the King was a tyrant. However, he did “own” the land. He had the right to do what he wanted with the land.

The unfortunate thing about that is that there were good Kings and bad Kings. Either way, stealing from a King (a good one or a bad one) is still stealing, and thus Robin Hood is a Thief.
OldZombie says:

October 2009 at 6:06 am

There is a pretty good podcast about magic called by Andrew Payne and Keith Barber “Go Magic Go” despite the lame name it is pretty good and one of the weekly topics in ethics in magic. I it currently on hiatus but there are over 100 episodes available for free on itunes. Other than the ethics discussions they have guests and do reviews and such, check it out.
Jeff Stone says:

October 2009 at 2:02 am

@OZ – Thanks for the info. I’ll have to check it out.
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 2:33 am

*sigh* It’s been on hiatus for several years now… I miss GMG! *sniff*
Mathias says:

October 2009 at 7:48 pm

On the topic of podcasts, my favourite site would have to be Magic News Wire. There’s so many podcasts/interviews of magicians from the well-known from the up-and-coming. The latest one is with David Ben; haven’t had a chance to listen to it yet but am sure it’ll be great.
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 8:07 pm

I’m looking forward to the Newswire interviews which Richard & Jim underwent yesterday. That’ll be fun, now that the stress (of the *13 Steps* DVDs project) is over.
Mathias says:

October 2009 at 8:11 pm

I saw the 13 Steps-project mention somewhere (might have been in Genii). Must have been a fairly big project.
Grandpa Chet says:

October 2009 at 8:13 pm

You can find more about it here http://tinyurl.com/yllu2fm
OldZombie says:

October 2009 at 2:16 am

@Chet, I agree this GMG hiatus has been too long. I have every episode on my ipod, its a good show, super force glass, 80% crap, hype of the week, I miss it all. That Osterlind 13 Step set looks very interesting. Im a big fan of Osterlind. Thats going on my Christmas list for sure.
Scott says:

October 2009 at 9:34 pm

Personally, I don’t even see an ethical dilemma here. For there two be a “dilemma,” there must be two opposing but valid ethical arguments. However, stealing intellectual property is just wrong. I don’t lend out, let alone give away copies of, my magic DVDs for just that reason.

I remember back in 2003-2004 there was some talk about exempting resales of magic DVD’s from the “fair use” loophole in copyright law, which makes it OK to resell books and other media without a royalty to the copyright owner (unlike in some other parts of the world). The argument was that magic DVD’s are in a special class, because you’re really purchasing a secret. Well, that didn’t get picked up by Congress, so it’s legal to resell DVD’s, as long as you don’t keep the original or a copy. Anything more – pirate downloads, pirate copies, etc – is just theft, and is legally and ethically wrong.

Comments are closed.